Replies: 23

tc Posts: 71 Registered: 1/2/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 22, 2010 1:23 AM   Reply You dispense wisdom. I think we sometimes forget ( on purpose, maybe) those of us in the earlier years of addiction that that addiction will be with us and our family forever and there are no guarantees. The impulse is to keep pouring money and forcing our solutions because we are afraid and love our child, but in the end, it's up to them and we have to accept it. I have a hard time with that. You help me with your words.

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 22, 2010 5:43 PM   Reply Hello Tc, Hello All, Thank you tc for your post. I do write because I want to warn others. You are right: I helped my kids with all kinds of help because of love and because I was afraid. I thought that a business, a help with finances, fixing their cars, taking care of their kids etc. etc. You name it, I did it. I was truly in deep denial and I thought That any day now things would turn around. They were bingers so it seemed at times that all was getting better. My son had been off meth for 3 months and had one more go at it and it killed him (like Jerry Garcia). All 3 were high money earners but when there's drugs involved they were forever short. Money is not the answer. More in next post..

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 22, 2010 5:56 PM   Reply All of us older parents will tell the same stories of helping and helping and losing big. Now I have cut off all help, all funds to any relatives on drugs, heavy alcohol. This goes for both sides of the families. Yes, I should have taken this hard stand, tough love attitude years ago. Of course Chuck and I don't get many phone calls and we are not invited to any clam bakes as we are not in the loop so to speak. In 2003 we borrowed 6,000 out of our 401K and gave it to my oldest daughter. I can't believe we did such a stupid thing. On top of that 6,000 we continued to give her money. All the while not realizing she was meth addicted. Today through hard earned experience I can tell when someone is on drugs or has had long time drug use. Thanks tc, Heartfelt hugs, Deb

mixnroll Posts: 59 Registered: 5/23/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 23, 2010 1:32 PM   Reply Thanks Waterdance for your sharing and wisdom. I am new to this forum. My son is in the early stages of addiction, mostly to pot at this point in time. I know from my work that we need to not enable him and we are doing our best now not to do that. He is now 18 and I know at this point it is up to him. He has to decide smoking pot like he is, is a problem for him and is not working for him. Right now there is a bit question if he will graduate from high school and that is totally his own doing. Anyway I keep having to fight the feeling that there is something else I can do..... and sometimes hearing from friends who have ideas, none of which would work. Our son is quite angry with us and at this point our relationship is not very good. It is painful and it is hard. It is helpful to hear from others who have been through the same thing. Your reminders to detach, not to enable, to live our lives is exactly what I need to hear right now. So thank you. I will be reading more of this forum.

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 24, 2010 12:13 AM   Reply Hello mixnroll, That's an interesting name you are using. What does it mean? Kids using pot: I've never considered this drug as serious in the early years but then again I never understood everything about it. I know it takes away a lot of ambition and gives a laid-back feeling. My ex-son-in-law smoked it like people smoke cigarettes. Even drove a car smoking it. By the time my daughter divorced him their large house reeked of pot and he was dying of cancer, first of the thyroid ,then it spread to the lungs and liver. He died in 2008..age 53. I must add that he had used cocaine heavily for 10 years and his diet was deplorable. I have a friend, Sandie who's teenage son has been smoking an ounce a day. He's in a drug program now.He's approching his 18th birthday and she feels helpless.Then again I know of many who did smoke pot in their young years and gave it up completely and are living vital lives today. After school lets out, quit supporting him while he is on drugs. He has to pay for his habit, not you. The strained relationship may turn around in time. Start putting yourself and husband first in everything you do.Detaching is so tough. So heartbreaking.All may work out better than you are imagining right now. The story isn't over. Hugs, Deb

mixnroll Posts: 59 Registered: 5/23/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 25, 2010 5:17 PM   Reply I will do an intro note to explain a bit more about our situation.... but I hadn't even thought how my screen name sounded on this forum until you asked me about it. It has NOTHING to do with drugs although I guess here it sounds like it does. LOL. It is a play on words on my real life name which is somewhat unique so I didn't want to use it here.

peg Posts: 26 Registered: 5/3/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 26, 2010 9:21 AM   Reply my son is very angry too presently he is angry that we sent him to treatment --- but in truth he was angry at us before that I don't understand why he says that he knows we love him..and that posses him off...because our live gets in the way of him doing what he wants to do (get high) but there's SO much anger there I really don't understand it

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 26, 2010 12:24 PM   Reply Good Morning Peg, Good Morning All, About your kid's anger: I also have never figured it out....Daughter Stella has been angry with me for years now and when asked why she brings up something that shouldn't make anyone angry if they were thinking straight. My friend Julie in Vegas say's her son tells her he got mixed up in drugs because she wasn't home enough (of course he forgets his father died and Julie had to work to keep all together). All of them, all druggies, all alcoholics have a "good" excuse for their addictions, for their costing their families, for stealing from their families and others, for not getting a job, for not taking care of themselves, for not taking care of their kids. The list goes on and on.More in next post.

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 26, 2010 12:42 PM   Reply This being angry business is just a cop-out, an excuse to justify their deplorable actions.The real truth: they love getting high, it's great fun and the rest of the world be damed. Our generation has raised a bunch of spoiled brats. They don't want to take responsibility for anything. They are using their health, brains, looks that they were lucky to be born with to get their drugs. alcohol, cigarettes every day. They don't care about their families. Not really. Until all of parents face the truth these addicts will rule our lives. I was shocked that my four oldest grandchildren have emotional I Q's like morons. They care only for themselves. Yes, I helped spoil this generation also.They get birthday cards sometimes from me and they shake the card and find no money. LOL. Get tough love in your lives. You will feel better. Love and hugs, Deb

missmymom Posts: 32 Registered: 5/23/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 31, 2010 7:53 AM   Reply My son is angry with me too. We would fight all the time. Now when I look back I believe it is because I feel we gave him everything he ever wanted. With my family I feel we never really taught him responsibility. We helped him with school work because we did not want him to fail. We intervened when he was in trouble in school. We didn't want people to think he was a trouble maker. He never really had any resposibilities around the house. We gave him a car in his senior year and he was not even a good student. He had computers, stereos, phones,... I felt if I was the best mother and kept him happy he would turn out okay. I know all the blame is not on me, he is the one who turned to drugs. I just hate the constant "What if I did this" that keeps repeating in my head. How do I not blame myself, I am his mother.

lori-in-irvine Posts: 109 Registered: 11/29/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 1, 2010 1:04 AM   Reply wow, this could have been written by me, my husband and I totally blew it by rescuing my son at every turn. He was a poor student, never helped around the house, treated me with disrespect, but got everything he ever wanted anyway, computers, games, phone, sporting goods, a nice car. We created a monster. He has no ability to handle frustration, delay gratification, rise to challenges, and simply does not know how to work for his rewards. Self medicating was just another way to feel good instantly without doing anything to earn that good feeling. We did him a terrible disservice. If I could change one single thing raising my son it would be instilling the lesson that working hard and giving back is where happiness and self respect can be found, not in material things obtained without effort.

missmymom Posts: 32 Registered: 5/23/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 2, 2010 9:53 AM   Reply I so agree and I hope it is not to late for us to teach my son these things. Deep down inside I know he has a good heart. He did come to us and he told us about his addiction, he said he just couldn't live like that anymore or lie to us. He came to us the first time he relapsed again saying he doesn't want to hurt us. I know at least he still cares about what his addiction is doing to us, this gives me hope. Now we just have to get him to care about his own life and let him know he can have a good one, a happy one, a successful one. This is my wish, that he will see the goodness in himself.

mixnroll Posts: 59 Registered: 5/23/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 28, 2010 7:45 AM   Reply I think my son is angry because he sees me as trying to control him. He doesn't like us setting limits. He never has and has been diagnosed as oppositional defiant disorder. He has always pushed the limits more than most kids even as a little boy. Now that he is 18 he doesn't think we have the right to set any limits. In my view we really don't have many on him any more. We probably should have more. Anyway so the anger is there to begin with but the drugs make it much much worse. He is 18 and wants his independence but has no clue how to get it.

lilypad Posts: 143 Registered: 10/14/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: May 31, 2010 10:03 PM   Reply My son has not responded to us with anger but he is very passive-aggresive. He will say one thing and do another. He is a very accomplished liar. The addict in him will do just about anything to get what it wants. I think that when our kids are using it is the addict in them that is like a little baby wanting it's way and wanting it right now. He is so different when he is clean. That is when he can be reasonable and realize that the world does not revolve around him and his desire to get high. BTW his drug of choice is pot. Anyone who thinks it doesn't have bad effects is seriously mistaken. It may not have the physiological effects of meth, crack or heroin but it can take over a person's life. Even my son was surprised at how quickly pot took over during this last relapse.

lori-in-irvine Posts: 109 Registered: 11/29/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 1, 2010 12:48 AM   Reply Hi Deb, Hi all, Lots of familiar stories here, I might have written many of them myself. My son is a seething cauldron of anger, directed mostly at me. I'm the tough one, my husband caved in long ago. In truth I'm not really strong because my body is falling apart from stress and I have raging panic attacks but I have to keep going somehow. I think my son's anger comes from self loathing turned outward, and his frustration turns to rage. I also blame myself, my son was over indulged and got everything he wanted without earning it. Now he can't handle any challenges whatsoever and expects everything to be handed to him. If I could change only one thing I would have taught my son the important life lesson that we reap what we sow, get what we earn (for the most part) and find reward and satisfaction through giving back. I really dropped the ball, my efforts to rescue my son backfired terribly, if only I knew then what I know now.

mixnroll Posts: 59 Registered: 5/23/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 1, 2010 7:15 AM   Reply This resonates with me. My son is angry with me because I am the enforcer of the rules in the house. My husband tends to give in or "forget". So I am the controlling one in my sons eyes. His therapist also thinks he has some anger at his birth mother which is then directed at me. I too struggle with the blame game, we should have been more structured we should have.... And you know what that self blame doesn't get any of us anywhere. These kids are messed up, and sure we made mistakes, but they are adults now and the choices they make are theirs.

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 1, 2010 3:00 PM   Reply Hello All, Now before all of us beat ourselves up for our so-called misguided parenting let's realize that everyone is truly resposibility for their own lives no matter what happened in childhood. All of you sound like loving kind parents that only wanted the best for your kids. Let's don't push all the blame on yourselves. And please let's quit excusing bad behavior, cruel actions and words. Every single one of these kids know right from wrong.The truth:they love the highs and don't want to give them up, come hell or high water. What they say to you and what they really think are two entirely different things. Most all of these kids do not have any mental illnesses. This is psycological babble. It's the talk of social workers, rehab people and anyone else trying to find a "reason". In my mind I had a hundred reasons why my kids had drug problems. more in next post..

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 1, 2010 3:26 PM   Reply Some of the reasons I imagined:They came from a divorced home, I had to work a lot to support them, we didn't have "a lot" of money, our house wasn't fancy,I raised them in Las Vegas,they didn't go to college, I had many boyfriends through the years ...the list could go on and on..........Nevermind that I was a loving parent, we went a lot of places, they found Las Vegas exciting to live in, they were born with health, brains and outstanding looks,our household was a fun household, everyone in the family had a sense of humor, we had a lot of friends, we always had pets, all of them were well liked. This list goes on and on also. I think it boils down to the ugly fact that they were raised in a drug culture and my two oldest became highly addicted and became involved with people who were also highly addicted. It became a "normal" way of life for them and their mates. I was considered "square" and sort of corny with my nature loving and excessive reading. A crazy bookworm. One husband said I didn't know how to have "real fun"! Do I think I did too much for them? Yes, I did. I didn't know what I was in the middle of. I didn't understand drugs and what they could do to a person and how much their minds could change.Love, Deb

waterdance Posts: 624 Registered: 6/10/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 2, 2010 1:17 AM   Reply Hello Lori, Here I am still up. I'm having problems with back, hip, leg pain. Went to physical therapy once. Will go again on Thursday. I reread your post about your body falling apart from stress and having panic attacks. After John died and Stella quit seeing me I was like the walking dead and at Christmas 2008 I became very ill and it lasted for 5 months, went to hospital twice. Once they said it was a virus, then they said it was the flu. I think from sress my body and mind gave up. I started reading about soul healing, right-brain thinking, timeshifting, accepting loss, being grateful. I made up my mind to live. I realized there were so many others who needed me well and then I found this healing forum. I work at finding the good every day and I have a grateful book and write of the richness I now find everywhere. Yes, I have lost my son and my oldest daughter will probably lose her life to drugs but now I am in acceptance and I am healing. It is heartbreaking about your son but somehow for yourself and others you must find your life again. I'll be thinking of you, Love Deb

lori-in-irvine Posts: 109 Registered: 11/29/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 2, 2010 8:54 AM   Reply Hi Deb,thanks for your reply. You know stress is an incidious thing, it can happen even while doing things you enjoy. I have a friend who is a stress case over golf! Some people somaticize anxiety and fear into panic attacks or migraines, or other pain but this happens on the deepest level of consciousness. I have struggled with this all my life, it is made worse because of the situation with my son, but he did not cause this. Still, I have gone on to accomplish many things in spite of my problems, I had a successful career and engage in interesting hobbies. I just happen to be one of these "types" that internalize feelings, it's part of my DNA. I take measures to counter this, and have tried many many therapies (new age and traditional) but as Popeye would say "I yam what I yam". There are times I simply cannot escape from the panic, but just move ahead anyway, "damned the torpedoes" kind of thing.

An addict's Mom Posts: 143 Registered: 6/4/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 2, 2010 9:27 PM   Reply Blaming ourselves is what parents do it seems. My son was angry all the time when he was using also. Looking back, it seems that raging at me kept the focus on me and what I was or was not doing rather than how insane his actions had become. I was unreasonable...I made him made, I had to walk on eggshells not to upset him because that might make him take offf or lash out. I can see now with the benefit of time that behavior truly was the drugs and for a time the struggle to get sober. He was just so filled with remorse and shame for the first year at least...Once he did his third 5th step he found peace. Today, he is the gentlest, most polite, caring and giving young man you could want to meet. Today, I can say that the work of parenting that I did when he was small and the things he learned until he started to use really did make a difference. It's sometimes hard to remember that it's teh drugs that have turned our5 kids into monsters, and that there can be pretty amazing people underneath that.

lori-in-irvine Posts: 109 Registered: 11/29/09 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 2, 2010 9:21 AM   Reply These are words of truth, and important to understand, our adddicts have choices, they know right from wrong and they can decide to stop using. I know I can't change the past but hope that some parents in a much earlier stage of the process can benefit from things I learned through all this, that an earlier invention might have made a difference. We just didn't know what we were dealing with. I thought my son would grow out of his immaturity. Over indulging kids with a penchant for risky behavior, excessive laziness (often a symptom of depression), narcissism or have poor impulse control is a recipe for disaster. Just sayin...

missmymom Posts: 32 Registered: 5/23/10 Re: News from the High Desert May 20, 2010 Posted: Jun 2, 2010 10:02 AM   Reply I agree with everything that everyone has written. I know it is time for me to let go and realize he is an adult now. I just don't know how to stop saving him. Luckily so far I have not had to turn my back on him or had to use the tough love you all talk about. It is very early in his addiction we only found out a few months ago. So yes everything I read is helping me. At the end of this week is when he has to decide, treatment, or your on your own.