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Topic: preparing for a battle
Replies: 21   Pages: 1   Last Post: Aug 15, 2010 9:08 PM by: fourm's

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Replies: 21
mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 1:17 PM
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I know the big picture is we need to stop enabling our son but man the individual issues that come up can be hard. We have given in on so many stupid things it is hard and later I feel dumb. So for a while he was allowed to use our car (when we were not) and the agreement of course was no driving if under the influence. We then took car privileges when it became clear he was using more often and we became worried about what exactly he was using the car for... We basically told him then he needs to take steps to getting his life together before using the car again. A few weeks later he and I were debating something about pot use and in the argument he told me he has driven plenty of times stoned!!! Um no that is so out of line so unacceptable!!! Of course every time he came home I did not pick up on it, so obviously I can' t always tell when he is high.
So yesterday he wanted to use the car, said he has been doing his school work. Right now he is not actually in school, but home doing school work and Tuesday we have a meeting to see if he has done enough work for them to let him come back and hopefully graduate. So my husband told him that we would not discuss the car until after Tuesdays meeting.... we shall see if he has done enough work.
Meanwhile last night my husband drove him around for some job applications and ended up being pretty suspicious about how he went off to a CVS.... and we wonder if the whole thing was to get some drugs either from a friend or something OTC. So we don't trust him and my husband felt taken advantage of.


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 1:25 PM
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So clearly we cannot let him use the car while he is using drugs at all... none of this we know you smoke pot but you won't drive while high crap. It is clear he doesn't follow that... even if that is from his own admission. He always gets us on I won't tell you anything if you use it against me... well basically he never tells us the truth anyway so does that even matter?
I just feel so stupid for even being in this position.. the fact that we ever trusted him to not smoke pot and drive.... we should have held our ground on that rule in the first place and we didn't. He is going to be mad that he ever told us he that he did because we never picked up on it. Sigh.
So bottom line is has to be sober and passing drug tests for us to let him use the car. To be honest I don't think he will give up pot to use the car....
M


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 1:55 PM
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And I am just dreading the fight... it gets so ugly... he can be so darned awful to us when he is mad. It is better if I stay calm and I will.... and I can just walk away when he starts his threats and stupid childish get back at you behavior... but you know what it is just tiresome.
And of course a part of me is afraid then he will just give up on trying to graduate but I have also realized that if he doesn't graduate, he doesn't graduate. Everyone has bent over to help him and i fhe doesn't do it then that is his own decision. Ugh.

M


waterdance

Posts: 624
Registered: 6/10/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 3:55 PM
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Hello mixnroll, How old is your son? 18? Can't you see that he absolutely doesn't care what you think about him using pot. He thinks it's the cool thing to do and it makes him feel great. Is there going to be a problem of him finding a job? And from what you say, he doesn't really care if he graduates. Pot does take away all ambition. Most of it anyway. So now what? Please buy the book "Tough Love". This will help you and your husband. Whatever you do, don't let him bully you with his tantrums. At this time he thinks more of his peers than his family. Ask him if he has somewhere else to stay. Tell him to start looking. These questions may bring an about face. We have raised and are raising a bunch of ungrateful kids who think they are entitled. He may think you have him mixed up with the Hope Diamond! LOL. I know you are anixous and heartbroken but he may turn out A OK anyway. Throw the ball back and tell him "I don't care if you graduate or not. You make it in life or you don't. I don't give a rats ass any longer." And whatever you do don't wash his clothes, make his bed or even cook for him. If he doesn't talk decently to you, quit talking to him. Tell your husband not to tolerate his abuse also. You and your husband have to have the same program. These are just ideas to try. What you are doing isn't working. Let us know what's going on. Wishing you the best, Deb...Where is he getting money for pot??


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 5:26 PM
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Thanks Deb,

My son is 18. You are right about everything. He has supposedly been looking for a job, but to be honest I don't think he has looked very hard... he certainly hasn,t done a good job of following up. I don't wash his clothes, make his bed or cook for him. He is welcome to eat dinner with us but usually doesn't. i have learned that when he gets verbally abusive to me I walk away or hang up. Today he is trying to make some social plans for tonight but doesn't have any cash. So he wanted to borrow some from us. Nope. He did agree to do a job for us which he did do... BUT we have told him we won't pay him in cash. We will get him a gift card, or call the movie start to pay for his rental etc. but we won;t give him cash. He has tried several different ways to get some cash but we are holding firm. He said it is causing him a problem in his social life and is a pain... yes thats true butt hat is how it is. He tried to tell us he would breing us a receipt but we have been down that road before without a receipt.... so no more. We are done buying his stories. We are slowly upping the ante. As far as where he gets money for pot... well I think he has gotten it from us one way or the other....either lying to us about what he needed t for or stolen it from me.... so yes we now hide our wallets etc. We are doing our best to just not buy his bs any more and to cut off any cash supply. I will get that book, it sounds like a good one. Thanks.


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 5:46 PM
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who is the author of th book tough love... i saw a couple of different books with that title. I know you said it somewhere already but I could not find that post.

M


lori-in-irvine

Posts: 109
Registered: 11/29/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 6:02 PM
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You are absolutely doing the right thing. Car privileges need to be EARNED. Sobriety is a non-negotiable requirement for driving (passing school grades should be another). Also, don't discount the risks for you and your husband if your son drives while under the influence. Recently a local teen, high on pot and beer, caused a serious accident and the passenger was brain damaged. The family is about to lose everything they own, insurance policies have limits no matter how good they are. Medical care is expensive and the family of the injured teen is seeking restitution against the parents, (who by way knew their son smoked pot and drank). A year ago, when we knew our son was using prescription drugs we took his car away. We didn't give it back until a week ago, when he was 6 months sober. Yes, it was a battle, sheer misery, not to mention enormously inconvenient, but we had no choice. Stay strong, your instincts are spot on about this.


lori-in-irvine

Posts: 109
Registered: 11/29/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 6:08 PM
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P.S. we are legally responsible for our kids until they are 23 if they are living at home, if we are paying for their insurance, supporting them in any way.


waterdance

Posts: 624
Registered: 6/10/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 7:28 PM
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Hi mixnroll, Hi Lori, Hi Everyone. Wow...There are a lot of books about tough love...one by james dobson. another by pauline neff. There's more even. The one I read and have around here some place is by phyllis york. All of them look good.

Have your son tested for other drugs mixnroll...there's home kits. Just hold your ground. You need to get tough with him. No he won't like it. I wasn't all that tough with my own kids. I was in the dark about their drug use and I couldn't tell most of the time and I was in denial. All of my kids went to work and they all ended up being high earners BUT that didn't stop them from becoming drug users. They were bingers. Most young people today do not consider pot use as serious. Your son thinks that what you and your husband says as just a lot of wind. Lori is right. You could be legally responsibility if your son has an accident while high. A friend of mine's son had accident while drunk, passenger died. She didn't lose her house but almost did. Mixnroll, Consider telling your son to move. If you have to scare him straight, do it. It just might work. Hugs, Deb


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 8:57 PM
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Thank you. I am going to look up cases such as you describe just to make my point. I don't need it because we hold the keys and it is our car and he is not driving if he is not sober..... but I am going to look up the info anyways.
We have used the home drug kits before and so will use them again.
We aren't quite ready to ask him to move out....although I think we may get there. One of the complicating fat ors is both my kids are adopted and so we are sensitive to him possibly having abandonment issues.
I think what may happen is he is going to get mad enough, and frustrated enough as he realizes he can't get anywhere from here or have any money from here that he may start living with friends. He has been doing on the weekends lately which gives the rest of us a nice break.


lori-in-irvine

Posts: 109
Registered: 11/29/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 30, 2010 12:59 AM
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Here's another case that occurred recently in my area. Tests did confirm the driver was under the influence of pot (no other drugs). You can show articles like this to your son all day long, but like most teens he will never think this could ever happen to him.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sirignano-240925-brent-kalmen.html


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 30, 2010 7:41 AM
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Thanks Lori. You are right we could get into an internet argument where he gives us articles supporting his argument and we give him articles supporting ours. We have done that before. LOL.The reality is it doesn't matter, he can think we are out of touch all he wants, but it is our car and our insurance and we are not taking any more chances with him driving under the influence of pot. For some reason he buys the fact that driving drunk is a serious problem, but thinks pot is different. He may be right that driving under the influence of pot is not as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol but again it doesn't matter because driving under the influence of anything is dangerous. This is one of those things that is clearly nonnegotiable.


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 29, 2010 9:07 PM
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On pot use .... I come from a generation that smoked pot a lot... in theory I get where the kids are coming from and although pot is apparently a lot stronger now than in our day i don't necessarily see pot as a huge problem if a kid smokes it once in a while. The thing with my son is that when he first started pot in 9th grade he moved quickly to smoking it every day, several times a day, including at school. Bascially he became a pot head. It got him into trouble and we neded up sending him to a TBS for 16 months. He was sober theren and for several months when he first came home. At some point he started smoking again, I think with the idea that it would be "casual" use. I am not sure when that started but more recently it has become clear he is smoking it a lot and often. It is no longer casual use. I don't think he can use pot casually, just like many adults can;t drink moderately although many can. I also know that he has tried many other drugs and have the feeling he would be willing to try almost anything. That is what scares me so much. He is early in the process but if he doesn't face the fact that he is not a kid who can use pot casually and that he has a drug problem he will end up like many of your kids who are seriously addicted to very serious drugs.I know we are not there yet.... but I also know and you are reaffirming that we need to stop enabling him now. That is the only thing that will help him in the long run.


missmymom

Posts: 32
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: May 31, 2010 8:18 AM
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My son started with pot and I agree for some it is just the begining. He used opiates everday while still getting high. I caught a friend trying to bring "dust off" cans into my house and after my son confessed his drug addiction(I went and brought a home test so he had no choice) We took his phone and I read his messages from friends he said that he did huff before, how many times I cant say. He also thinks pot is not bad. But for him I don't think the high from pot is enough so I know he will turn to something else. He is still home detoxing on Suboxen down to one pill a day. He will see the doctor this week and I hope the doctor will convince him to seek further treatment. He knows this is what we want. Untill then he still has no car, no money and no phone access. So I am like you waiting for the blowout from this. I pray he chooses treatment.


An addict's Mom

Posts: 143
Registered: 6/4/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Jun 8, 2010 1:05 AM
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I just have to chime in here about pot usage. I know quite a few people who have been using daily since they were your son's age. They would argue that pot never hurt anyone, but knowing these individuals...all I can think is that their entire lives have been wasted. No ambition, no goals - at 50, no real joy in anything. Pot addiction at 18 is just as serious as any other addiction. The use of pot by your son has become unmanageable and is creating chaos in all your lives. He isn't working to support himself, lying and stealing from you. It doesn't have to be meth to be a serious addiction. Both alcohol and pot can be just as destructive as opiates, Meth, pain meds. When a child is given stern consequences and doesn't change the behavior, my belief is that you have passed experimentation and have evolved into addiction. He's 18, He may still listen. He may never do any worse drugs than pot, but it sure sounds to me like that is havoc raising enough! I admire you for holding your ground, and I know how hard that can be. A hopeful parent wants to believe that progress is being made and they are actually getting better, and the using child has a single purpose - to make his or her parents think they are the crazy and unreasonable ones who have the issues so they can go back to using again. more...


An addict's Mom

Posts: 143
Registered: 6/4/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Jun 8, 2010 1:09 AM
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I admire you for remaining tough. Cars and cash just make it easy. He may still use, but you can be relieved of the guilt that he duped you yet again...or that you contributed in some way to his use. He must be worried about it, it sounds as though he is pulling out all teh stops with his arguments and badgering to get you to comply with his twisted thinking. It takes courage to control the things you can. Your keys, your cash, your insurance. I wish you the best, it just shouldn't have to be this hard.


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Jun 8, 2010 10:45 AM
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Thank youbforbyour helpful words. I did have the car conversation with him and he was not happy but we got through it. My therapist advised us not to get into you can use the car if you are not smoking pot, and we drug testnyou but rather itnis our car and you can no longer use is. If he wants a car he can get a job and buy one himself. Good advice I think. He has been given another chance to get his diploma ts summer by the school. He seems to be working on that and I am just keeping my mouth shut and hoping he does it.
Thanks for your comments about addiction whether it is pot or meth. I think you are right. There are some drugs like heroin and meth that no one can use moderately and not get addicted. Clearly those drugs are pretty powerful masters and make it that much harder to get and stay clean. Drugs like alcohol and pot can be used moderately with little or no Ill effect by a lot of people. But some cannot use them moderately and do get addicted. Then you see the addict behavior of lying, stealing, and manipulation. That is where we are at with my son.


waterdance

Posts: 624
Registered: 6/10/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Jun 8, 2010 5:43 PM
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Hello All, I'm reading all these posts about pot smoking. I do know a lot of people who did smoke pot and went on to vital lives. I know people who can drink responsiblity. My son-in-law did smoke pot excessively and died from cancer at age 53. He used cocaine for about 10 years. No one can say it's not harmful. It does sap ambition. I tried pot 7 times....it didn't sit well with my body chemistry....this is true of my entire family. Strange. Now after saying all this I think this drug should be made legal.....mainly because of the problems with Mexico.Yes, there will be people who will end up smoking it excessively.....and it does cause lung problems like cigarettes. I don't feel we should make pot smokers criminals and give them prison time. Talking about pot and meth is like talking about apples and oranges. Believe me, meth is the very worst drug there is. A Nazi drug. Anyone caught making and selling this drug should get stiff prison time with NO PAROLE. Any parent on this drug should have their children taken away from them at once. All parents should be tested for drugs.Take care, Deb


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Jun 8, 2010 10:11 PM
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I would agree pot and meth are very different and hope it didn't sound like I was equating them or the addictions to them. The thing is it is too easy to write off an addiction to pot as not being serious. Ceertainly not everyone who smokes pot goes on to a drug like meth....but my guess is most meth addicts smoked pot for a while before moving on to harder drugs. This is the fear with my son...I know he has tried other stuff....and he is looking for the good high....smoking pot is not just a social thing with him. I am afraid he will try anything and that is my fear.


waterdance

Posts: 624
Registered: 6/10/09
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Jun 9, 2010 2:28 AM
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Hi mixnroll, Here I am up late...This sciatic nerve giving me a fit.
I didn't mean to make light of your son's addiction to pot. Not at all. In fact I should have been more aware of my kids' use of drugs, drinking way back when. I truly did think they would mature out of it all. What I could have done I don't know. I know that whatever I said had no effect. All 3 of them went along with their peers and the drug culture by then was in full swing. My youngest no longer uses drugs and is now worried sick about her own two. I will be thinking of you and yours, Deb


mixnroll

Posts: 59
Registered: 5/23/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Jun 9, 2010 8:13 PM
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ooh I sympathize. That sciatic nerve can really make you hurt. I don't have problems with it when I am lying down or still, but sometimes it really bothers me when I am walking around. I know for me the key is exercise.... do you know what is causing your problems with it?
You now I have realized that even though I am very aware of my sons problems with drugs, and that it is early in terms of the seriousness of the drugs (ie pot) that I can't prevent him from going to the really dangerous stuff. All I can do is to try not to help him along on the path and hope like hell he wakes up before he goes down the really dangerous path. I think the hardest thing is realizing that i really have no control over his choices in life. I need to let go of trying to control them and let him make his choices even if they are really bad ones.... sometimes that is just very hard to do.


fourm's

Posts: 4
Registered: 8/15/10
Re: preparing for a battle
Posted: Aug 15, 2010 9:08 PM
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here is your problem solver your son needs to be put in an outdoor wilderness program believe me it works they need to be removed from all the outside distractions it worked wonders for my son who just graduated the program in August and now attending boarding school for the next year and is doing well. I saw a remarkable transformation in my son he found himself and learned to love himself God bless you and good luck





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